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PostPosted: May 28th, 2010, 5:46 pm 
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Karr Lord of Chaos wrote:
SquareEnix actively crushed the fan remakes of ct


Fixed.

And no one yet has any high hopes. As Thutmose stated, we're just going to kind of wait and poke around at it until we get (or don't get) permission to pursue this farther.

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PostPosted: May 28th, 2010, 5:55 pm 
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@Karr - In case you missed it:

Image

There is no need to decompile the code (but I did it anyway for fun), and there is no need to rewrite code beyond the text portion. The editor text is uncompressed as far as I've seen. And by using abbreviations to make it fit, or even adjusting memory pointers, adding in the English isn't terribly difficult. Further, a single Japanese character requires two bytes, whereas a single English character requires only one byte - meaning that for every Japanese character there is in the software, I can store two English characters (which is why some of the text above goes on longer than the Japanese equivalent), so storage space for text isn't a very big issue (except for very short Japanese words are concerned like "magic" which I had to abbreviate).

And in instances where a full, detailed translation just won't fit, I can put a manual look-up number so that people can go to an online/downloadable manual with the full translation/description.

No, it's not easy, but it isn't extremely difficult either. Getting Kupid 2.0 to work is far more technically challenging than this, imo.

Also - ROMs would not be distributed. A patch would be. People would still need to buy their own hard copy of the software, make their own image, and patch the game themselves.

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PostPosted: May 28th, 2010, 6:00 pm 
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Thutmose wrote:
except for very short Japanese words are concerned like "magic" which I had to abbreviate.


Good abbreviation, methinks.

*nod nod*

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PostPosted: May 28th, 2010, 6:37 pm 
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Thanks for the comments all.

Dray probably will have a much harder time translating the sample game than I will translating the editor interface, in a general sense. A lot of the text used in the editor translates very literally, whereas the text in the sample game gives you things like this (the intro text, methinks):

Quote:
Pa daughter - Le's condition still
Have not made a promising way,

Catching even a straw
Be thought.

According to the story of the Garden Palace dominated Mage
The place is located west of the castle
Miles Black Forest,

Waking up there princess
The Great Treasure
That there is a thing.

What kind of jewelry or
What is food, there really
What a thing to be,

Not understand the situation that even
But what now
Rely if desired.

If successfully, the princess sleep
Shake up the treasure
I was able to bring the person

Pacific Princess - a son of Le
Take Nasu事 here
You commitment.
So he may want to take a little artistic license and translate it as best he can.

But, for me, there is another layer of difficulty. The word "Magic", for instance, appears nearly 100 times throughout the software. Doing a simple replace all on it works, but in some places there may not be enough space to display the four-character English translation. So as I go through and translate the editor, I also have to look through and test everything to make sure all the translations fit. And, in places where they don't, I have to somehow figure out which of those 80+ instances of the word in the 57 megabyte software file correspond to that one particular instance on that one particular screen.

So, I'm probably going to have to do something similar to what Dray is doing - tagging every single word in the entire software to use as a reference (he tagged 529 bits of text for his efforts fyi). Of course, each word/sentence would have to be tagged manually. Needless to say, throughout a file with 57 million bytes of data, that's a lot of tags to place. :P

If we get permission from agetec, then I will definitely need to put together a team to do this.

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PostPosted: May 28th, 2010, 6:57 pm 
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The problem you guys are facing with the dialogue is that you aren't taking into account that a lot of Japanese is figurative, and a lot of words have many, many meanings.

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PostPosted: May 28th, 2010, 7:00 pm 
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And that's probably why we will be hitting you and Lone up a good deal...

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PostPosted: May 29th, 2010, 2:12 am 
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UPDATE: I have actually started to make good progress translating RPGT4. Below are several images which show some of the areas that I have translated so far:

The game data load/save screen:
Image

A memory card interface:
Image

The "Utility" screen:
Image

Loading custom resources (including the option to import music!):
Image

Special Skills/Abilities naming screen (I'm certain some of my translations are wrong, but I'll revise that later):
Image

There are some other assorted bits I've translated, but I'll hold back on the rest of the images until I make further progress.

Translation Help: If you are able to, please help me translate the following (presuming it shows up right on the forums):

を読み込み中です
Context: This has to do with loading or saving data to/from a memory card.

会心の一撃確率アップ
Context: This is some kind of event type or stat name.

エナジードレイン
Context: No clue. o.O

無効化
Context: Some kind of status, attack, or special ability.

爪装6、タ紬
Context: This is the name of an equipment/weapon type. I think it means claws/nails.

慣=菊9゙ホヌ
Context: This might just be gibberish.

カウンター
Context: I think this is another type of equipment.

居合抜き
Context: Maybe another equipment type, or special move.

連続 Magic
Context: Some kind of property or special move.

ゲット
Context: This is some kind of special ability or move used in battle.

徴収
Context: This is some kind of special ability or move used in battle.

溜め
Context: This is some kind of special ability or move used in battle.

キャパシティを利用しろ

みんなを援護しろ
適度に回復しろ
確実に回復しろ
確実に倒せ
Context: These are some kind of special ability or move used in battle. They are all related to the same thing, but the translator says "Shiro" - no idea what that means.

命を大切に
Context: This is some kind of special ability or move used in battle.

されています
Context: This has something to do with entering a new password, entering an old password, or something like that.

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PostPosted: May 29th, 2010, 7:38 am 
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Quote:
エナジードレイン
Context: No clue. o.O


Energy Drain

Quote:
カウンター
Context: I think this is another type of equipment.


It says "Counter"

Quote:
ゲット
Context: This is some kind of special ability or move used in battle.


I'm pretty sure it says "Gut" but I'm not sure.

Quote:
されています
Context: This has something to do with entering a new password, entering an old password, or something like that.


This basically says "Is leaving right now".

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PostPosted: May 29th, 2010, 12:16 pm 
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I'm not a pro, but I'm giving this a try. I'm sure I'll make mistakes that an advanced reader can fix, but maybe if I do this, us less able people can bounce ideas off each other.

Quote:
を読み込み中です
Context: This has to do with loading or saving data to/from a memory card.


All that seems to make sense to me is something like "Read inserted memory card".

Quote:
会心の一撃確率アップ
Context: This is some kind of event type or stat name.


This is what it seems to be:
Party Spirit - Sure-Fire Attack Percentage

The last kana comes out to "appu", but I don't know what it would be in English.

Quote:
無効化
Context: Some kind of status, attack, or special ability.


I don't know. Based on the context you gave, my guess is "Beneficial change to nothing". Maybe status heal?

Quote:
爪装6、タ紬
Context: This is the name of an equipment/weapon type. I think it means claws/nails.


Everything I'm looking at seems to be pointing to it being a strong silk dress or kimono. I don't know what the 6 is in there for.

Quote:
慣=菊9゙ホヌ
Context: This might just be gibberish.


I can't get anything out of that either.

Quote:
居合抜き
Context: Maybe another equipment type, or special move.


My guess is that it says "beating in succession multiple targets". Maybe this could be Multi-strike or something?

Quote:
連続 Magic
Context: Some kind of property or special move.


Seems like "Continuous Hit" Magic or "Hit All" Magic.

Quote:
溜め
Context: This is some kind of special ability or move used in battle.


The kanji seems to mean collect or gather. Based on the context, my best guess would be "Charge" (like, charging or storing up for an attack).


Quote:
キャパシティを利用しろ

みんなを援護しろ
適度に回復しろ
確実に回復しろ
確実に倒せ


It seems that "shiro" can mean "castle" or "white". I'm pretty sure these are white spells.

Quote:
キャパシティを利用しろ


This is something to do with increasing the capacity of....something. Or maybe it means using the increased capacity of something for your advantage. The key word is "something", which I can't figure out. Maybe it's something like Attack/Defense Up or something.

Quote:
みんなを援護しろ


I think this is "Protect All".

Quote:
適度に回復しろ


I think that this is either "Regen" or an "Auto-Potion"-like function.

Quote:
確実に回復しろ


I think this is something like "Cure Confusion".

Quote:
確実に倒せ


I think this is "Revive".

Quote:
命を大切に
Context: This is some kind of special ability or move used in battle.


This says something like "Important Command".

Quote:
されています
Context: This has something to do with entering a new password, entering an old password, or something like that.


From what I've read, it seems to be "done once and for all". Perhaps it means "when you change your password, it's for good!"

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PostPosted: May 29th, 2010, 4:19 pm 
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Meredith wrote:
So, I won't always be able to translate everything exactly. I can give direct translations and you can just kind of figure out what it means....

[会心の一撃][確率][アップ] = [critical hit] [probability/likelihood][up]
Context: This is some kind of event type or stat name.

[エナジー][ドレイン] = [energy] [drain]
Context: No clue. o.O

無効化 (maybe disabling of some kind??)
Context: Some kind of status, attack, or special ability.

[爪] [装]6、[タ紬] = [nails] [equipment/harness/attachment] [no idea]
Context: This is the name of an equipment/weapon type. I think it means claws/nails.

慣=菊9゛[ホヌ] = Umm...something to do with getting accustomed to a type of flower or something?? Does that make sense? [ho-nu? I have no idea. It's a weird combo of katakana]
Context: This might just be gibberish.

[カウンター] = [counter] Maybe like counter attack?
Context: I think this is another type of equipment.

[居合抜き] = Actual definition from a dictionary -- "while on one knee, drawing a sword and slashing one's opponent"
Context: Maybe another equipment type, or special move.

連続 Magic [continuing magic]
Context: Some kind of property or special move.

ゲット = scoring a goal/point
Context: This is some kind of special ability or move used in battle.

徴収 = [collection/levy]
Context: This is some kind of special ability or move used in battle.

溜め = [Might be a verb...to amass/accumulate...]
Context: This is some kind of special ability or move used in battle.

キャパシティを利用しろ [ to use capacity?]

みんなを援護しろ = essentially it's like "protecting everyone" "backing up everyone"
適度に回復しろ = moderate recovery
確実に回復しろ = certain recovery
確実に倒せ = certain death
Context: These are some kind of special ability or move used in battle. They are all related to the same thing, but the translator says "Shiro" - no idea what that means.

命を大切に = (literally) command with caution
Context: This is some kind of special ability or move used in battle.

されています = well, this is an honorific form of the verb "suru" which merely means "to do." So, it may very well be to put in your password, or literally "to do" your password....I can't tell without the word "password" being next to it.
Context: This has something to do with entering a new password, entering an old password, or something like that.

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PostPosted: May 29th, 2010, 8:02 pm 
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This is awesome! Thank you everyone!

With all these different interpretations, I should be able to get pretty close to what they actually say. :) I have a much better understanding now of what these are.

I have a second list of words/phrases that I'm building now. So far most of the stuff has been pretty basic, but I think soon I'll be getting to much longer strings of text that I will probably need help with.

I'll continue posting updates and requests as I go along. Thanks again everyone!

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PostPosted: May 29th, 2010, 8:21 pm 
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In case it hasn't been mentioned here, I'm handling the translation of the sample game. An issue on the disk is that the game data is compressed, so it's impossible to use it to translate the game, likewise it's impossible to make any edits on the disk. However, Thutmose managed to get a memory dump when playing the game, and conveniently enough, the entire game data was there, uncompressed. So I'm using that to translate, and will eventually have the .gme available for download.

I have two memory dumps on hand. One is the original file, unedited. The second is a file where I went through and noted all instances of text with "ZX#". So I look for the ZX in the edited file, match its location in the unedited, and I'll know what to translate and where in the editor to find it.

At this point, I haven't quite finished copying down all the instances of text in the game. I took some time to translate some of the system data, though. It's rather difficult in some instances, such as:

ソウルアゲイン

Which is a spell name. Best I can guess, cutting it into pieces results in the words "Soul" and "Regain", so I'm wondering if it's a Regan spell. I need to check it out in the editor to be certain.

But then we have spells such as イフリート and シヴァ, which oh-so-conveniently translated directly to Ifrit and Shiva. Something tells me a Final Fantasy fan contributed to those translations in Google Translate. :P

I'll likely be posting some of the difficult translations along the way. I do believe I'll be extending the credits sequence at the end of Rappin' MAGIC. (Let's be sure to keep track of who helps us with the translations.)

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PostPosted: May 29th, 2010, 9:01 pm 
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Draygone wrote:
At this point, I haven't quite finished copying down all the instances of text in the game. I took some time to translate some of the system data, though. It's rather difficult in some instances, such as:

ソウルアゲイン

Which is a spell name. Best I can guess, cutting it into pieces results in the words "Soul" and "Regain", so I'm wondering if it's a Regan spell. I need to check it out in the editor to be certain.

But then we have spells such as イフリート and シヴァ, which oh-so-conveniently translated directly to Ifrit and Shiva. Something tells me a Final Fantasy fan contributed to those translations in Google Translate. :P

I'll likely be posting some of the difficult translations along the way. I do believe I'll be extending the credits sequence at the end of Rappin' MAGIC. (Let's be sure to keep track of who helps us with the translations.)


Katakana is the "easiest" kana to translate, because it's basically foreign words we probably know, but we have to say a few times to understand and guess where to break them up. Additionally, it depends on context.

For example, ソウル アゲイン is souru agein. Which, to me, would likely be "Soul" and "Again". I would probably guess it to mean Revive instead of Regen. Again, I'm not an expert or telling people I'm right.

As for イフリート (ifuritto) and シヴァ(shiva), those really ARE Ifrit and Shiva. :)

I'll help out the cause as much as I can.

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PostPosted: May 30th, 2010, 10:46 am 
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you guys know a lot of japanese words.

the patch seams like a good idea but unless i can play it in english then its not much good to me unless i learn japanese. i could play rpg maker 1 in japanese because ive memorized every aspect of it but for a non speaker or reader in japanese i wouldnt want to be fumbling around with the more complex stuff unless they where in english.

good luck with the editing, its a crazy amount of work.

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PostPosted: May 30th, 2010, 6:32 pm 
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Karr Lord of Chaos wrote:
the patch seams like a good idea but unless i can play it in english then its not much good to me unless i learn japanese. i could play rpg maker 1 in japanese because ive memorized every aspect of it but for a non speaker or reader in japanese i wouldnt want to be fumbling around with the more complex stuff unless they where in english.

good luck with the editing, its a crazy amount of work.
When Dray and I are done, everything will be in English, aside from a couple bits here and there that are hard-coded.

Thanks. :)

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PostPosted: May 30th, 2010, 7:34 pm 
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I was trying to explain to Dray how I do my translations.... but it's kind of complicated and technical, hard to explain.... so I don't think I succeeded. >_<

But, basically, I open up the disc image in a hex editor, look for Japanese text spread throughout the 257 million character/byte file, and then I go from there (yes, I go through it character by character, line by line, it's the only way to make sure I don't miss something.... I'm on character 8,200,272 right now - here's a pic http://thutmosesworkshop.com/assets/trans_example.png).

For easy stuff, I just copy/paste the text into Google Translate, one word/phrase at a time, try to figure out what is really being said, and then I go back to the code.

For each Japanese character in the word/phrase, I can type two English characters. So it might seem easy - but, when you have a word like "城", which means, in English, "Castle", I have only two to three spaces to type in my translation. Because of Kanji, I encounter this problem frequently. My only choice is to shorten the word to something like "Csl". Yeah. >_>

Now, there is another issue. Sometimes there is a huge string of Japanese characters which mean something simple like "モンスターユニット", which means "Monster Units". That gives me plenty of room in the code to type out "Monster Units". But, when I go to play the software, what happens? The menu was only designed for 9 characters to fit, and I just modified the code to tell the game to place 13 characters there. That's too much, and the text just goes off the screen (believe me, that's far from the worst graphical glitch that can be cause by putting in too many characters).

So I'm limited in space by both how much room there is in the code, and the available screen space in the game - whichever is smallest.

It may be possible for me to overcome the first problem by modifying something called "pointers" (these basically tell the software where in the RAM each word/phrase is stored), and then moving the locations to a place where there is plenty of free space in the code. But, that's something that I'll look into after I have the translation completed as it would be fairly time consuming.

There is, however, no solution to the second problem unless I somehow figure out how to either make certain menus larger, or decrease the space between characters. Again, that's something for me to figure out after the translation is done.

UPDATE: I think I have just about the entire battle system translated. So, now, screens like "Tactics" makes sense (it used to say "Meeting" but I think that "Tactics" makes more sense), and so do the messages you get after battle - in case you're curious, when you win, it says "We won the battle!" (which I shortened to "We won!" 'cause I ran out of room :p).

I have also translated the title screen editor, along with all of the names of the backgrounds.

And lots of other odds & ends are done too.

My microphone gets here Tuesday/Wednesday, once I have that, I'll start putting together my video feature on RPGT4. ^_^

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PostPosted: June 1st, 2010, 2:00 am 
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I think what confuses me is you'd have so much issue fixing the text right, when the folks at Agetec didn't.

And yes, I am comparing someone who is just tinkering around with a group of professionals. :P

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PostPosted: June 1st, 2010, 2:39 am 
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Draygone wrote:
I think what confuses me is you'd have so much issue fixing the text right, when the folks at Agetec didn't.

And yes, I am comparing someone who is just tinkering around with a group of professionals. :P
The people who developed the software did not use a hex editor to type in code. They used a higher level language, with an integrated development environment, and complied the code into the PS1 assembly. They didn't have any kind of restrictions because they programmed the software to do exactly what they needed it to do.

The reason it's difficult for me is because I am modifying data within code that has already been compiled, and was not meant to be changed. If the original authors wanted to make a word longer or add a sentence, all they had to do was type it in, then recompile, and the compiler would automatically put all the data (including text) into the code at the most efficient location, as well as calculate the pointers for where the data would be stored in RAM.

Since I do not have access to the source code, I can only modify the already compiled code. As such there are restrictions that I have to deal with that the developers of the software never had to. They had different tools and the ability to change the code however they wanted. They had it easy.

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PostPosted: June 1st, 2010, 6:24 am 
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Draygone wrote:
But I thought you said you actually could look at the source code.
I can look at the compiled assembly code, but not the source code written in the higher-level language (which is what the authors of the program wrote it in). Assembly code is auto-generated by a computer based on the higher-level language code written by humans, and it looks like this:

Code:
loc_80014624:
lui     $v0, 0x8009
lw      $t4, 0xA0+arg_4($sp)
lw      $v1, dword_80096620
lw      $t5, 0xA0+arg_4($sp)
srl     $v0, $v1, 31
addu    $v1, $v0
lhu     $t4, 0xC($t4)
sra     $v1, 1
sh      $t4, 0xA0+var_78($sp)
lhu     $t5, 0xE($t5)
lw      $t4, 0xA0+arg_4($sp)
lui     $v0, 0x8009
sh      $t5, 0xA0+var_70($sp)
lhu     $a0, 8($t4)
lw      $v0, dword_80096624
subu    $a0, $v1
srl     $v1, $v0, 31
addu    $v0, $v1
sh      $a0, 0xA0+var_88($sp)
lhu     $v1, 0xA($t4)
sra     $v0, 1
It isn't easy to figure out exactly what a program's function is by looking at the assembly code, especially not for a system as complex as the PS. And I can't modify that code, if I did, I'd have to recompile it and re-insert it into the disc image. Reverse engineering and modifying that assembly code would be a major, major, task that would take years. I can see the code, but figuring out what it's doing is scarcely possible for me - and compiled assembly code isn't meant for humans to understand anyway: it's the native language of computer processors meant only for the processor to read.

The only parts of the code I can modify without having to recompile are the variables which store their data as plain text in the already compiled file, along with certain pointers, and potentially some other variables.

If I had access to the actual source code that was written by humans in the higher level language, then it would be a different story. If I had that, then there is virtually no limit to what I could do. But agetec would absolutely never release the source code. The most I'd imagine they would do is allow me to release a translation patch - and even that's stretching it.

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PostPosted: June 5th, 2010, 7:52 pm 
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I'm very curious about something, for anybody that can help:

いいですね 王女パ-ル。

and

パ-ル姫、突然の失跡!!

These lines and others bring up the words "Pacific - Princess" and often also include "Le" in the line. I'm wondering what the heck it's talking about. I mean, should I actually say "Pacific Princess" in the translation? Doubtful.

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